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45 acp defense rounds

6K views 25 replies 17 participants last post by  lineman475 
#1 ·
Which defense rounds are members carrying in 45 acp? I like Hornady critical duty / defense, but I am surprised they are that much lighter than some other 230 grain JHPs. Is it the polymer flex-tip that makes them lighter?
 
#2 ·
I have the Hornady in one of my 45s, Winchester Silvertips in another, and the dreaded Black Talon in another. Yes, I know about the publicity on the Black Talon, but in the event I ever have to fire them it is provable in Court that they were no different from other hollow points. It was all an advertising ploy. I should not have even mentioned them because now here comes the negatives about them...Wait for it....
 
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#9 ·
Winchester had a big advertising campaign years ago when they came out with the Black Talon and went overboard on saying how powerful the Black Talons were and the non-gun public got all upset. I drank the Kool Aid and bought a bunch. Because of the outcry Winchester stopped marketing the Black Talon, did minor changes on the bullet and recolored the slug. I believe it is their Golden Saber now, someone can correct me on this if I am mistaken.
 
#6 ·
Please explain to me the difference between .45 target ammo and a defensive round, besides the expense! I'm thinking that if I need to shoot a BG, the target ammo will do the trick. I realize the defensive stuff will have different expansion qualities, but is it really THAT much different in a real life (or death) situation? I'm thinking a center mass shot with either will put the BG down.

Just curious...oh, also, what do LE folk use, is it special defensive rounds they load in their duty weapons?
 
#8 ·
The target ammo (FMJ) has a better chance of passing thru the BG without expanding and hitting another target beyond. The defensive round (JHP) is engineered to expand and have less penetration. I believe each PD has their own favorite defensive round,
 
#7 ·
I believe eack PD has their own choice that are required to be carried in duty weapons. There is a ton of difference in relibility of expansion. In a pinch whatever you have will make a hole but in that pinch I want to make as big of a hole as possible. I keep Hornady in my 45.
 
#11 ·
Just starting to find ammo in MN ! In the last two days, 200 rounds of target 45 auto and 100 of 9mm.
I hate paying for sd ammo but you do not want pass threw.
I would like to is specs. on military round ball % on pass threw with 45 and 9mm ? Target ammo is not always
loaded for that big hit.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Remington makes Golden Saber, not Winchester.

The latest incarnation of the old Black Talon is the T-series Winchester Rangers.

The talons on the Black Talons did tear flesh. That's what they were meant to do. The problem they had was the round would get hung up in heavy clothing or thick leather because of the same talons.

The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with anything pertains to guns and ammo except for standing armies in combat. I love it when anti gunners throw out the GC like it's some kind of universal law.
 
#22 ·
Well, ....... personally I think this overpenetration thing is grossly overstated. Seems to be an, 'internet gun forum myth' of sorts. All bullets - once they're, 'in the air' - are dangerous, period! During the wintertime I frequently carry FMJ in my carry pistol. (Better for heavy clothing and down vests.) I, also, hunted thin-skinned game for more than a quarter of a century. I know, very well, what FMJ and JHP bullets can, and can't, do on wild game. I, also, know that I put down far more game, 'right there' and, 'anchored' them with FMJ bullets when JHP's wouldn't have hit anywhere near as hard!

Then there's the experiences of the United States and other world military organizations. I very much doubt that the Hague Convention accords have much, if anything, to do at all with the modern army's preference for centerfire FMJ rifle, carbine, and pistol ammunition. The only combatants who presently use, 'hollow point' ammunition are the long range snipers. All other small arms combat takes place with FMJ ammunition; AND, I would submit that there are good reasons, 'Why'.

What pistol bullets do I like? Remington (bonded) 'Golden Saber', Speer, 'Gold Dot', and Federal, 'HST'. Of them, all, I think I like Federal the best. NOT a big fan of Hornady. I like the bullets; (and use them in other rounds) but I've heard too many complaints about the cartridges, themselves. If price is important, take a look at Fiocchi; it's nice, hot, reasonably priced ammo. When I carry FMJ it's either Speer, 'Lawman' or Federal's, 'American Eagle' brand. All this said, I don't really care what pistol bullet is used just as long as the first three rounds go exactly where you want them to, and produce a nice tight group! ;)
 
#24 ·
I prefer either Winchester Ranger T or Federal HST in my .45s. I usually stick with 230gr. as well. Would also use Speer Gold Dot without hesitation.
 
#25 ·
Pistolero The way it was explained to me with the FMJ in the Mil was that the FMj were more for wounding. A wounded person takes extra people out of the fight to either carry him off or patch him up. Patching them up costs money and damages their infastructure. The mil LR ammo is not of the expanding type. More like the SMK rounds with the hollow melpat. That being said I know that SMK and Amax both will expand sometimes just not reliably.
 
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