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First time on the range with my Glock 17

8K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  ifithitu 
#1 ·
Truth be told it wasn't only my first time with the Glock it was my first time on the range outside of a classroom!

Since my intended purpose for this firearm is home defense I did a rapid fire drill from 21 feet. Here's the results after emptying the mag.

Plant Terrestrial plant Tree Font Grass


I'm happy with the grouping although not with everything going so far left. Either way though it would probably do the job and the gun felt great in my hand. Couldn't be happier with my first firearm being a Glock!
 
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#2 ·
I'm happy with the grouping although not with everything going so far left. Either way though it would probably do the job and the gun felt great in my hand. Couldn't be happier with my first firearm being a Glock!
before you monkey with the sights, shooting to the left is a common problem so refer to the wheel Organism Font Circle Parallel Symmetry


you have too much finger on/in the trigger and are pushing as you shoot. use the pad of the finger tip and not the joint
 
#6 · (Edited)
Truth be told it wasn't only my first time with the Glock it was my first time on the range outside of a classroom!

Since my intended purpose for this firearm is home defense I did a rapid fire drill from 21 feet. Here's the results after emptying the mag.

I'm happy with the grouping although not with everything going so far left. Either way though it would probably do the job and the gun felt great in my hand. Couldn't be happier with my first firearm being a Glock!
Congrats on the new Glock 17....you won't be disappointed! Depending on what you've owned or shot in the past, mastering the Glock pistol to produce consistent + accurate shooting takes practice.

I've found that most Glocks have a tendency to shoot a 'little left' (factory set-up)...and I respond by moving my rear sight slightly to the right to compensate.

Typically, if the right bottom corner of the rear sight just touches the outside lip of the bottom of the rear sight groove, the sights are 'centered' enough for consistent + accurate shooting. It works with factory white-dot sights and with Meprolight Tru-Dot Tritium night sights (my personal choice on a Glock pistol.)

Adjust...TAP...enjoy!
 
#7 ·
Truth be told it wasn't only my first time with the Glock it was my first time on the range outside of a classroom!

Since my intended purpose for this firearm is home defense I did a rapid fire drill from 21 feet. Here's the results after emptying the mag.

View attachment 9329

I'm happy with the grouping although not with everything going so far left. Either way though it would probably do the job and the gun felt great in my hand. Couldn't be happier with my first firearm being a Glock!
Congratulations, and welcome!

Shooting left is common with new shooters to a particular type of platform. Regardless of what the chart says, it's jerking the trigger.

You can hit bullseyes regardless of how much or little finger you put on the trigger. Smoothly engaging the trigger is the ticket to hitting where you're aiming.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Shooting to the left of center is only, 'common' with many Glock pistol shooters who also happen to be, ....... RIGHT HANDED.

Sorry T4, but, 'smoothly engaging the trigger' (What does, 'engaging' mean anyway?) is NOT, 'the ticket to hitting what you're aiming at' with a pistol. The order of priority is (Ready?)

(1) Set your grip properly on the pistol.

(2) Take control of and, 'set' your front sight blade on the target.

(3) With a combat pistol, set your finger in place on the trigger's face, and begin smoothly tapping the trigger; and finally,

(4) Carefully watch your front sight and/or the target, and allow your front sight's dwell time AND return to, 'the nest' to be the things that actually control the speed at which you continue to fire.

(If your proprioceptive reflexes can handle rapidly repeated fire, then continue to tap the trigger accordingly; but if you can't make genuinely accurate shots at speed, then simply fire more slowly until you learn how.)



Dsci, a word of advice in your ear: People who practice for combat pistol engagements at 7 1/2 yards often end up dying at 7 1/2 yards, too. If you want to learn how to control your pistol shot placement, then, you must first learn how to control your grip (especially on the pistol's backstrap) BEFORE you do anything else.

It's OK to start a CQB practice session at 7 1/2 yards; but it's NOT OK to stay there throughout the entire practice session. You should always try to work with a pistol at varying distances, as well as to finish each session out at 12 1/2 yards, or more. (I, myself, will often work out to 20 + yards.)

Other suggestions for your Glock include: (1) Use a lighter weight connector; (I like the Ghost, '3.5 lb Ultimate' connector.) and (2) install some sort of trigger stop; (A lot of Glock shooters will say that their Glocks don't need a trigger stop; but, ....... a lot of Glock shooters are wrong. Glock's striker-fired trigger mechanism tends to mask trigger overtravel; but, in an unstopped striker-fired action, overtravel IS going to be present; and it will make a substantial contribution to throwing your shots off.)
 
#8 ·
Truth be told it wasn't only my first time with the Glock it was my first time on the range outside of a classroom!

Since my intended purpose for this firearm is home defense I did a rapid fire drill from 21 feet. Here's the results after emptying the mag.

View attachment 9329

I'm happy with the grouping although not with everything going so far left. Either way though it would probably do the job and the gun felt great in my hand. Couldn't be happier with my first firearm being a Glock!
Not bad buddy! Keep it up! ;)
 
#13 · (Edited)
What the others (except pistolero) said is correct, a 9 o'clock sweep and/or "low left" is very common with right handed shooters. Especially for shooters who arent used to the longer pull of striker fire guns.

While it is a trigger control issue, I find that grip often affects our ability to properly control the trigger through the shot.

I'll bring the target in close and ask shooter to NOT focus on it - sometimes i'll turn it arround backwards so its just a blank piece of paper. Point the gun at the paper and focus only on the sights. Watch then through the shot, they should move straight up and down during recoil. If they do not, the grip needs adjusted. How far they moved up/down doesnt matter, only that the gun stays straight.

If the gun is staying straight through recoil but shots are still moving left, then ill start working on the trigger finger.

Dont "tap" (a.k.a. slap) a pistol trigger, especially a DAO like Glock. Also, I strongly advise against overtravel stops on Glocks meant for defense - taking out overtravel can result in the gun failing to fire, especially if it gets a little dirt/crud in it. I use them on my competition gun but never a carry gun.

I aslo recommend shooter stay with the stock trigger until they've mastered it before going to a lighter connector. The lighter connector can cover up trigger control problems. Covering up the problem will keep you from getting from good to really good!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
#16 · (Edited)
What the others (except pistolero) said is correct, a 9 o'clock sweep and/or "low left" is very common with right handed shooters. Especially for shooters who arent (sic) used to the longer pull of striker fire guns.
:rolleyes: Oh boy, is the above reply incredibly discombobulated! What's going on? Have we got another one of GlockForum.net’s infamous bassackwards, ‘sock puppets’ here?

(We do, huh!) :eek:

First my words get turned around; and, then, I'm flat-out told that I'm somehow wrong. Amazing! (And all by the same, ‘make-believe jerk’ with an, as usual, fictitious bio and phony-baloney credentials!)

While it is a trigger control issue, I find that grip often affects our ability to properly control the trigger through the shot.
This remark also, more or less, agrees with what I've previously written. How, then, am I wrong? A proper grip does, indeed, control how the trigger finger is disarticulated from the rest of the hand. Consequently, unless the grip is first properly established it is impossible to gain any sort of CONSISTENT coordinated control over the trigger.

I'll bring the target in close and ask shooter to NOT focus on it - sometimes i'll turn it arround (sic) backwards so its just a blank piece of paper. Point the gun at the paper and focus only on the sights. Watch then (sic) through the shot, they should move straight up and down during recoil. If they do not, the grip needs adjusted. How far they moved up/down doesnt (sic) matter, only that the gun stays straight. If the gun is staying straight through recoil but shots are still moving left, then ill (sic) start working on the trigger finger.
That’s, kind ‘a like, ‘putting the cart before the horse’ now; isn't it! Somebody appears to be an unusually discombobulated and badly, ‘cornfused’ Pistol Instructor; and (respectfully) it ain't me! ;)

The above quoted reply is like a bad joke! Either preignition or post-ignition muzzle shift (Which is what we're really talking about, here.) is almost impossible for an observer's eyes to notice and/or follow. This is, ‘Why’ the results always have to be analyzed after the shot and ON THE TARGET instead of while the shooter is still firing. What GlockGuide is describing, here, is either dry-firing technique, or what's now called a, ‘wall drill’. Both methods are student familiarization techniques - NOT any sort of useful or correct live fire drill.

What's with all the erudite-sounding recoil nonsense? ‘Yada, yada, yada!’ ‘Blah, blah, blah!’ The ridiculous sock puppet who calls himself, 'GlockGuide’ doesn’t have a clue - Not a clue! For the past 25 + years students have repeatedly told me that I’m an outstanding pistol instructor; and, to be perfectly candid, I think they’re right, too. I do take pride in the craft, and I, also, believe that I understand the dynamics of pistol shooting - not well, but - very well; (and, if success is measured by results, then, I’ve helped to produce several outstanding marksmen to prove it!) :)

During live-fire pistol training exercises, the less I see a student's pistol recoil then the happier I am; (and the more promise that student shows!) What I look for isn't either, ‘recoil’ or, ‘muzzle flip’; instead, it's the straight-line back and forth motion of the pistol while the shooter is actually firing.

WHEN YOU'RE MOVING FAST WITH A PISTOL AND YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT, THEN, THE VERY FIRST THING A PISTOLERO HAS TO DO IS TO PROPERLY SET HIS GRIP - PERIOD. NO IF'S, NO AND'S, NO BUT'S!

Dont (sic) "tap" (a.k.a. slap) a pistol trigger, especially a DAO like Glock. Also, I strongly advise against overtravel stops on Glocks meant for defense - taking out overtravel can result in the gun failing to fire, especially if it gets a little dirt/crud in it. I use them on my competition gun but never a carry gun.
What? Bullhooey! Just plain bullhooey! First of all Glock pistols are NOT built on a DAO design. For a few years, there, Glock pistols were classified as being DAO by the BATF; but, that was only done in order to allow Glock pistols to be imported into this country in spite of the BATF's own incorrectly promulgated rules. Today, the earlier incorrect importation rules have been changed to more correctly describe Glock pistols as being STRIKER-FIRED. (Which is what every Glock pistol actually is.)

‘GlockGuide’, (And I use the term loosely!) I don't know who you think you're fooling; but it certainly isn't me; and I would hope it's not too many other people on this board, either. Your so-called, ‘expert advice’ positively stinks - Stinks! Modern combat pistol technique does NOT teach, ‘pulling’ a pistol's trigger. The words used to correctly describe proper trigger technique by most of the modern pistol trainers I’m familiar with are either, ‘tap’ or, ‘press’.

(Know what? I’m actually worried that someone's going to take your remarks seriously because - if you don't stop posting this sort of outrageous, phony-baloney, ‘techno-crap’ about pistol shooting, you just might cause an otherwise innocent person to wind up being injured - Injured, you childish schmuck!)

Another thing: I have properly installed trigger stops in all of my EDC Glock pistols; trigger stops that have been in place, and have continued to work FLAWLESSLY through between 40 and 50 thousand fired rounds, each - Each! (That’s TENS OF THOUSANDS of fired rounds!) In order to be more believable what you should have said is something like, ‘An improperly installed trigger stop might, ....... yada, yada, yada.

(Understand?) :confused:

I aslo (sic) recommend shooter stay (syntatical omission) with the stock trigger until they've (sic) mastered it before going to a lighter connector. The lighter connector can cover up trigger control problems. Covering up the problem will keep you from getting from good to really good!
What’s that stench? More bullhooey! There is absolutely no empirical evidence, anywhere, to substantiate the above remark - NONE!

A factory-stock Glock trigger can be so horrendously bad (heavy, gritty, creepy, and difficult to let-off) that ANY reasonable improvement a Glock shooter can make in order to improve the trigger - short of trading in his Glock on another brand pistol like a SIG with a, ‘DAK’ trigger, or an H&K with a, ‘LEM’ trigger - could provide an immediate improvement in the student's scores.

GlockGuide’, (and, again, I use this preposterous term very loosely!) I don't know who you are, or exactly what you’re up to; but your, ‘professional advice’ is awful; and, for the sake and wellbeing of other GlockForum.net board members, I hope nobody on this website takes either you or any of your fascinating, ‘Mulligan stew’ sort of advice seriously.

You appear to be, at best, badly confused; or, at worst, something of a sociopath. For someone who claims to hold the credentials of an NRA certified (pistol? pistol?) instructor, you show a remarkable lack of technical experience along with a genuine professional naïveté. (You don’t know what you’re supposed to be talking about - Do you!)

At the very least you're behind the times, ‘Mr. GlockGuide’; and, in my considered opinion, if you are, in fact, that accredited pistol instructor you claim to be (Which assertion, among your other erroneous statements, I seriously doubt.) then you should stop wasting your time on a gun board, and make every effort to promptly sign yourself up for some serious (including basic, beginner-level) recertification. :p



ADDED: Striker-fired pistols do NOT have a long trigger pull; what they have is a long front-end trigger TAKE-UP, instead. (The long take-up is an additional safety feature that most people - including many so-called, ‘Glock Armorers’ - don't even realize is there!)

Your sig line, also, states that you are an, 'Advanced Glock Armorer'; but we, both, know that you barely recognize which end of a gun the bullet comes out of; so what readers really have here is just more of your usual bullhooey! You should be ashamed of yourself; and whoever is actually running this website is highly remiss to allow you to continue on as you’ve been doing.

GLOCKFORUM.NET IS SUPPOSED TO DEAL IN PISTOLS AND PISTOLCRAFT - NOT TOYS FOR IMMATURE SOCIOPATHS WHO ARE FASCINATED BY GUNS, LOVE VIOLENCE, AND HAVE NEVER GROWN, THE HELL, UP.
 
#15 ·
May sound dumb, but I do a lot of air pistol shooting, in the garage. I have a Crosman, and it will launch a .177 caliber pellet at around 650 FPS. It is only one shot at a time, but you still learn what works and what doesn't. (Not to mention it is great for taking out small pests around the house. Pellets go right through the head on most of them)
 
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#17 · (Edited)
I've just edited the above reply to more accurately reflect my true opinion of the immature, 'sock puppet' who takes such insidious personal delight in, 'haunting' this board; and, if neither the existing, 'shadow moderators' nor the, (I presume because I can't really be sure!) 'new website owners' don't put a stop to this, 'shape-shifting fool' constantly turning up under one name or another and, 'crapping' all over the board then I, most certainly, am going to move to another more responsible and professionally managed gun board.
 
#18 ·
I don't know what's up with you dude. You some "Internet guru" or something? "Sock puppets"?? You TRACK people on this board? "Look up people on this board". THAT's some messed up shit.

Maby it IS time for you to leave for a "more responsible and professionally managed gun board". Good Fuckin Luck! Obviously, this board does not meet your criteria of....whatever the fuck your Criteria is.

I could care less. Ya don't like this board? Don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way OUT!! Ya sanctimonious butthead!:cool:
 
#24 ·
He didn't seem to ask for advice as much as he was telling us all about his experience with his new Glock.

The peanut gallery had to jump in on his trigger finger, his sights, his trigger, grip, and everything else he was doing wrong.

We have a forum full of experts that ain't worth a shit on their own.
 
#23 ·
Yeah, too funny. But one learns quick these gun forums are not the best place to ask. I read around and pick out useful tips here and there but will never rely on someones so called expertise for what works for me. Right & Wrong has it's place but when we get beyond merely gun safety and to self-defense I adhere to what works for you. When you start reading the long draw as noted above it's generally a sign of something other than sound advice.
 
#25 ·
Yeah, I have been doing the "forum" thing for about seven years now, but left the last Glock forum I was on for a few years because all they kept doing is slamming one another. This one is new to me and like it so far, but just like I found out in the Marines years ago, you always have that 10% no matter where you are.
 
#27 ·
Wow, what a rant, fortunately I missed it! I could have indicated I disagreed better than I did. What I actually disagreed with:
1. The shot at T4 and “smoothly engaging the trigger”
2. Instructing someone with trigger control challenges to start “tapping the trigger”
3. Going down the road about practicing at 7 ½ yards = dying at 7 ½ yards and that the OP has to train at a lot of distances – it didn’t have anything to do with how to correct 9 o’clock sweep
4. Recommendation to modify the gun to cover up a control issue
5. Recommending to modify the gun to remove over-travel – want to die at 7 ½ yards, have a malfunction because tolerances were removed from a SD weapon.

I’m not going to engage in the rants, but I’ll address some items that pertain to the thread:

Bringing the target closer and turning it around – it’s actually recommended as part of the NRA’s Basic Pistol Course. The reason is to reduce the number of things the shooter is trying to focus on at one time. In this case, I would want the shooter to determine if grip is correct before the next step of trigger control. I want to remove as many other factors for them to think about as I can. Basically, just follow the behavior of the sights to determine if grip is correct.

The last things I care about are dwell time or speed or distance. What I should have also posted is I would only load 3rds/mag. This also helps with concentrating on just one thing.
This exercise will also help the shooter identify pre-shot muzzle movement because they’re focused on the sights only so it’s easier to pick up

I also feel it’s important to give students exercises that will help them be able to identify issues themselves. They won’t always have someone else to help. This is especially important when providing online help.

Now, to correct a couple other things:

What? Bullhooey! Just plain bullhooey! First of all Glock pistols are NOT built on a DAO design. For a few years, there, Glock pistols were classified as being DAO by the BATF; but, that was only done in order to allow Glock pistols to be imported into this country in spite of the BATF's own incorrectly promulgated rules. Today, the earlier incorrect importation rules have been changed to more correctly describe Glock pistols as being STRIKER-FIRED. (Which is what every Glock pistol actually is.)
Yeah, sorry, it’s a double action only pistol. This is taught in the Armorer’s Course, it’s one of the review-test questions in the Advanced Armorer’s Course and it’s a final exam question for that class as well. I guess they want to get that point across. Now I normally wouldn’t post test questions and answers, but I’d hate for someone to get it wrong.

Oh, and the distance the trigger bar has to move along the face of the connector is longer than many single action or DA/SA in SA guns that use a sear. One of the most common complaints I hear from shooters trying to lighten their Glock trigger is that it turns “mushy” – what they feel is the distance the bar is traveling along the connector, it’s more obvious with the change in angle. Where other guns can be made short and soft, Glocks can only be made soft.
 
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