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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am a Marine that does things that the public would not want to know about the things my special forces team does, it takes me 4 ambien to get to sleep. With my back problem I could have got an honorable discharge but these three months I have never been so lost, it doesnt feel right to be walking around with out my gear and looking at the roof tops or windows. I went into Walmart and I stood in the middle of the store fo about an hour, I had 4 workers ask me if I need any help. I want to stay home for my children but deep inside I feel like I dont belong here. I am a specialist and what I do is kill, I know how many but it disgust me to think about. I wake up at 2:am everynight waiting to here the call sign. Am I losing my mind?? I bought a gun to try an make my time here kind of like weening off a drug like Im supposed to be slowly come off the war. I go to the shooting range and shoot 1000 rounds a day. Im getting help from a pscyciatrist to help me but I go in there and I cant seem to focus on what she is talking about. I hate to say it but this isnt home until the war is officially over. I tell the Dr. How I feel and she says I just need to adapt, but 3 months home and if I still have not adapted I doubt it will come. I hurt my back while in service and I have been a civilian for 3 months. I have a herniated disc in my back which I go in for surgery Monday. Ill have 3 to 4 weeks of PT then Im off to Florida for one month and then back to the desert, thats where I feel Im suppose to live and suppose to die. All of sould of the dead are following me. Somedays there gone and otherdays I feel them around. me, that is when Im not in combat, when my Team gets called all of this BS goes out the window and I know my task and I execute. We have taken down some Hi rank officers that doesnt make the news but I gaurantee you that we are there doing the jobs the Army, Navy or airforce cant to because we get dropped of 20 to 30 miles from our objective and we get the job done. I have seen two of my best friends die right next to me. The Enemy was out of bullets so I drop my gun and gave my friends the justice they deserve. I have 5 scars that will never heal from that fucker pulling a knife. That was his falut. Actually this has been the most I have talked in months. I thank you all who are here to listen. Sleep good at night because I will fight for your honor and freedom so you can live a good like. Sepmer fi Special Forces. I have been trying to play Joe Scmoh who has just bbaought a new Glock 21 and there are some great guys on here which I truly like getting responses from, it makes me feel more domesticated and I thank you. Maybe this is the steps for my first stage of becoming more and more like a civilian. I truely thank you for being so kind and I am sorry for putting on a front about needing help with the guns, I just didnt know how to talk to people. If you have ever spent years over seas its almost like you have to learn to walk again when you become a civilian. I requested that I go back but I want to be with my kids. Maybe talking with you guys can help me adapt to civilian life and they have me so jacked up on medication for my back which I hate because they make me loopy and my whole body is numb so If I mispell anything its because of those damn medications. I hate themm, I was born bread and fed to let your senses be your eyes and these meds make me feel like a zombie and I would get my butt kicked if I was in CCQ on these pills. Thank you guys and women for listening. I hope I can talk again very soon.
 

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Zigger: I haven't been in combat in 44 years. I was wounded in Vietnam and I
know what it is like to try to become a civilian again. When I returned home
I was hated by many of my fellow Americans. I was cursed and spit on. I
sincerely hope that you can get some help. The drugs are distorting
reality for you. Best of luck to you. Semper Fi.
 

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Zigger, hope things work out for you, I served 4 years in the Air Force but never heard a shot fired in anger.
Your G21 is one of the best Glock makes and my G21 GEN3 RTF2 is my favorite Glock.

Hang in there Marine.
 

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I'll say this. One psychiatrist isn't going to be the right one for everyone. If yours isn't right for you then try a different one. I hit my third when I found a guy I clicked with. He is a big gun nut like me and a history nut so we had some common ground. He figured out quick (which I didn't know about myself) that knowing something was wrong or what was wrong wouldn't ever work for me. I have to know the why of my thoughts, problems, and stress that was literally destroying me. Don't give up because there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Find that thing or person that will "click" for you and you will see it. God bless you.
 

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Zigger, thanks for your service, dude. Different branch, but I can appreciate what you shared. Like these guys just said, ya need to hang in there, man. You mentioned kids, and I presume you mean children. At any rate, in life, there is always someone that needs us, whether we see it or not. And for all of us, either by our choice, or with no control over the choice, there comes a time when we have to turn the page to a new chapter in our lives. Change isn't always easy or fun, but it can be good...It's what we make of it. I don't know you, or your history, other than what you shared in your post..In taking you at face value, let me say that no one can ever take away the memories of what you've accomplished...some of the things you described cannot be imagined by most folks. But that was yesterday...You say you're facing change, and I would just encourage you to try to embrace it, to get a head start on your future...As jbglock said, one particular person or doctor isn't always gonna be who you can click with. Give it time, and seek out one you can click with. You have a "like" for the shooting sports...use it..there are others like yourself out there...connect with them...find a hobby, make some goals. One thing for sure, it will take a little time to adjust...but you can. This is not professional advice, just some words from someone who wants to see us vets do well. The greatest advice I can give is to pray...people may come and go, and say things they think we want to hear, but God is all knowing, and all caring. He never gives bad advice, and will talk straight to you, if you'll listen. I'm not preaching to ya, man...just telling you what worked/works for me...ya hearing me?
Only two people have ever offered to die for you . . .
Jesus Christ and the American Military Hero...One died for your Soul, the other for your Freedom
From what you say, you're familiar with one of them...I hope you'll get to know the other one...
I say this because I and others on this forum care...I took you at your word, and shared my time and concerns for a military brother. I hope you're for real, and not a hoax...but even if you are, the last advice I just gave you still applies...
 

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This is a great group of folks...they definitely listen...holler anytime...
 

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This is a great group of folks...they definitely listen...holler anytime...
This is what seperates this Forum from others.
 

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The only thing with a civillian psychiatrist is they have no idea of what you are going thru. There are also VA psychiatrist's. I have found if you can find a ex millitary psychiatrist in private practice they will understand more than you think and it helped alot. Charlie Daniels song Still in Saigon has a lot of truth to it. Good luck my friend. Dave
 

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Zinger, 21 year veteran myself. Time in the box but not in the 'zone'. However, when I read your piece I see a man who can do many things. You're a focused individual. You've served others without care for yourself. You are a man that loves his country and his family. You have so much going for you. But, you have the monkey clinging to you like so many that have gone before you. I live near many civil war sites and when I visit I think of the brutalities of that great war that kept our country united as one country. You've served so well to ensure the war that could have been the greatest war,... wasn't. I can't thank you enough. But for you it's all about what's next. I can't tell you, but 'jbglock' did. Find the right person and you're on your way. Why shoot, I look for someone to talk to all the time and it's no big thing. I need help figuring out how to get the milineum generation to work! And for me it's all about talking. Every day to someone about something. And then one day, it's a whole new day. We love you man, for who you are and what you've done and who you can become.

So here's a True story that you might relate to. My dad was a 20mm gunner on a troop transport boat during WWII. His boat was a flat bottom transport that carried Marines right up to shore for deployment onto the beach. His job was covering fire. He launched guys into the thick of enemy machine gun fire and watched guys who he had lost 20 cents to the night before in a poker game drop into the ocean. And you know when I found all of this out? After he died and I found his service records and letters. He never mentioned his feelings or his issues to anyone. But my man, that was then. This is now where more know of the ghosts, dreams, and screams that follow you home.

Think of what you did with regard to the mission and think how the basics can apply to life. You have so much to give and we want you to be here for us, and the next generation.

Drive on my man and keep posting to this great group of folks.

Mr.Ed
CW4 (Ret)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I want to thank all of you for your unbelievable support, I didnt expect the responses that I did and it really went straight to my heart. Im going to request a new Doctor. After I wrote my post I started lowering my dose of pain medication because I feel it was making me depressed. Im in alot of pain but most of my pain is in my soul. I have done things that I will never forget and never forgive myself for doing. I didnt do anything other than what my commanding officer and the United state Marine Corp has told me to do. I was a part of a single digit man crew who were sent in with one mission and one mission alone. To kill first or capture second if possible. We never made one capture in my service. The thing I fear the most is when I close my eyes for rest that is when it all comes back and I cant get those images to stop. I just want it all to stop. Before I was assigned to the special forces I was a fun loving guy, I was all about making people laugh. My wife told me the other day that Im not the man she married. I so much want to be that man but Im afraid I will never be me again. I live for the corp and I will die for the corp. If I would have known then what I know now I would have never signed up. That is something that is very hard for me to say because my life revolves around the corp. This forum helps me say things that I could never say out loud to a Dr. or anyone else. I feel like just another guy sharing my feelings because I will never see one of you guys in person. Last night I got 3 hours of sleep. I woke up four time screaming and hollering for my men not to infiltrate a certain structure, the structure that took 1/2 my men (best friends away) the corps says if a guy goes down move on with the mission and that is something I have a hard time living with. Maybe I could have saved my men if I would have tried but I kept on with the mission and succeeded. Calling in for extraction killed me by saying two for extraction and not 7. I dont talk with my wife anymore and I try my hardest to play with my kids and smile and have fun. I want to be the person I was so badly to give my family the husband and father they deserve. They deserve so much better. i never cried once in service but after I got home it seems like that is all I do. I went out with my best friends from school last night and all I could do is drink my beer and talk about school which was nice for them 2 hours my head was not thinking of all the gun fire and the missions I was on. After I got home I just walked around my neighbor hood and enjoyed the quiteness and the smell of fresh air. I think with time I will get there and I need to not live out every second I spent in combat. I will never ever forget the lives I taken and I will never forgive myself for that. I talk to God every day to please take my hand and lead me in the right direction or take my hand and take me home with him. This pain I feel is non stop. I just want to thank all of you for every single word you wrote. It shows me that there are people out there who care for me who dont even know me and I want to espress my deepest thanks. God Bless you all and thank you. Semper fi Special Forces.
 

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"Im going to request a new Doctor..."
That's a great starting place

"I dont talk with my wife anymore and I try my hardest to play with my kids and smile and have fun. I want to be the person I was so badly to give my family the husband and father they deserve. They deserve so much better..."
You're right..they deserve better...the best of you! You have to open up and talk, bro...

"After I got home I just walked around my neighbor hood and enjoyed the quiteness and the smell of fresh air..."
That's your new life you're smelling, man...Take those walks with your wife and share that with her..

"I think with time I will get there and I need to not live out every second I spent in combat..."
You will get there...with time you'll be able to distance yourself from the past...you have to build a future...

"I talk to God every day to please take my hand and lead me in the right direction..."
You're on the right path, Zigger...and you have to remember to listen to His response...

You're gonna make it ! :)
 

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Zigger21, 1st thank you for your service and your sacrifice. From reading your posts I can hear the pain that you are feeling and the help you are crying out for. As the others have said keep looking for the right doctor. Not all are the same and not all are specifically qualified to deal with you specific needs. I also agree with Rowabi about a deeper relationship with God. I became a born again Christian during my law enforcement career. I have seen some awful crime scenes and other things I would like to forget over my 17 years. Although these things were not a result of my actions or the result of following orders in a war zone I did find the peace and solace in knowing that there was a creator that had created me for a specific time and a purpose. Unfortunately, there will be no peace here until Jesus returns. We must face war until then. But keep one thing in mind. There is always one person who has your back and knows what you are going through, and he is Jesus. If you don't already have a one I would suggest reaching out to a pastor in your local community. One that you can sit with and talk about the things that are bothering you and can give you some explanations.
 

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Zigger21, 1st thank you for your service and your sacrifice. From reading your posts I can hear the pain that you are feeling and the help you are crying out for. As the others have said keep looking for the right doctor. Not all are the same and not all are specifically qualified to deal with you specific needs. I also agree with Rowabi about a deeper relationship with God. I became a born again Christian during my law enforcement career. I have seen some awful crime scenes and other things I would like to forget over my 17 years. Although these things were not a result of my actions or the result of following orders in a war zone I did find the peace and solace in knowing that there was a creator that had created me for a specific time and a purpose. Unfortunately, there will be no peace here until Jesus returns. We must face war until then. But keep one thing in mind. There is always one person who has your back and knows what you are going through, and he is Jesus. If you don't already have a one I would suggest reaching out to a pastor in your local community. One that you can sit with and talk about the things that are bothering you and can give you some explanations.
+1 on that...The only real hope we have...Without Him, we're dust...With Him, we're secure...I second the idea of a local pastor...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I have been talking with my Priest ever since I got back because he was their for our family when my wife was diagnosed for AML luekemia. That was a tough year, the fear of losing your loved one really got me thinking about what about those people that were marks for my TEAM. My life is like a roller coaster of emotions. The Marine Corp. has trained me to help keep my emotions at bay and in a spot where they will not interefere with my duty at hand. One night I went to the firing range and I went through 2400 rounds on my M-16 and 1200 rounds with my M9. My commanding officer was pissed but I needed to relieve myself of all that was on my mind. My shoulder hurt a little and my wrist was a little sore but I needed to work out my anxiety and my fear of losing loved ones. Then it made me think what about the Arabs that I have taken out and there children but then I remember they train their kids to shoot assault rifles at age 8. they strap suicide bombs to their kids without even thinking twice about it, so my kills are justified and those Taliban F'ers who have no care for anyone, they only live for one thing and that is to try to attack the United States and this is why I joined the Marines and was transfered to a special combat unit. The longest we stayed watching a compound in our ghillie suit that had our mark in it was 15 days 14 hundred hours, surviving from rations where ever we could find them, eating whatever we could find, and a hand kill on a curious wild pig that was killed by hand and a 9" blade. Those days sitting out there waiting for the right time to take him down really took a toll on your body and your mind. Heating the wild pig about 3 ounces at a time heating it up with a small lighter that took a while to make it safe to eat. I was the spotter for my sniper sitting 400 yards away from a camp of at least 50 armed soldiers walking around day and night. Finally we seen the mark come out in the open to talk to one of the soldiers and it was a dean calm day no wind and I spotted him gave my sniper his data that he need to make a accurate shot. I was so nervous when I started the count fire, fire, fire, and the one shot with the .50 cal struck him in the shoulder and basically took everything shoulder and above with it. then the nerves kicked in because they sounded the alarm and we had to hang tight while the soldiers canvassed the grounds. When they started looking at the other side of the camp we made our way out slowly and hiked another 50 miles in full gear carrying the fifty to the extraction point. Through that whole time we had no communication with anyone. My heart stopped jumping out of my chest when we got in the blackhawk to gets us back to camp for debreifing. This forum has been very theraputic for me to empty some bones out of my closet. I Slowly getting there with help from the Dr's my Priest and this forum. I want to say thank you for being kind hearted and trying to understand what I went through during my tour. My back surgery is scheduled soon and then Physical therapy, Pshycology to see if Im fit to go back. Im really starting to question if I go back or not but the answer needs to come down from the Big man himself. With my training, my special skills and success rate during my missions weigh heavy on if he wants me to go back. Right now Im on the fence if I want to go back. Im scared of civilian life because my special skill set doesnt mean anything in civilian life. It wouldnt put to any good where Im at now. If I get into any altercation if Im at a bar with one of my friends who always has an itch to fight. My time home I always ask who will be going out for drinks because if he is involved I dont go. He thinks Im better than him because I never go out with him anymore. He is a great friend without the booze in him and I talk to him outside of going out and I need to be honest with him, if he gets into a fight I can not help out. My fear is that he will pick a fight with a bunch of guys and the altercation includes the rest of my friends I dont think I could walk away. My mindset would be to defend but that could get me locked up and then I would get a dishonorable discharge, I think I need to talk to my wife and see if she is into moving, somewhere where nobody knows me and I can get a fresh start. Im not suppose to have all this on my mind while Im home, Im suppose to be happy and glad to be home. But what I know and how I have been trained I need to have a fresh start. There is a guy who keeps telling my friends I dont care what he knows Im going to kick his a$$ because my wife dumped him for me. I just hate having all of this to worry about. I just want to be relaxed and no worries on my mind and my mind is clouded with combat and what special missions I could be on right now and not showing my love to my wife and kids. I feel Im on the road to destruction. I need to call my Dr. Take Care my great friends and please think nothing less of me. Take Care and God Speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I wanted to thank you all because it looks like I wont be writing much anymore. I had my back surgery and Im on an intense Physical Therapy which will have me at 100% in 3 to 4 weeks. From then I go to my COmmmanding Officer in the States and make sure that I, ready for Duty again because he said people like myself are irriplacable. When I have a mission I make sure the mission gets competed and I said too much already on this forum but it was like therapy for me to get things out there and off my chest. He promised me this will be my last tour because in the next two years the war will end and I need to choose my Team. My last Team May God Bless you and may you rest in peace. I dont like choosing young ops because they dont need to lay their life on the line so early. I have 4 out of my 5 chosen and I have my 5th picked but he a little bit of a loose cannon and in the Jobs we do I need that type of guy to save and infiltrate places only this guy will find. Its touch reading through all of the applicants that want to be special ops, I look for people who have been in action for 5 years or more any younger it leaves a week point or we say a kill gap. This is the last time you will be hearing from me and I pray you all sleep well at night and I hope to return to see how you guys are doing within the next 2 years. God Speed, Semper Fi
160px-Special_Operations_Specops_Army.svg[1].png
MARSOC Jonathan Ziegler 2nd Battallion
Special Force Reconnaissance
 

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Good Luck and God Speed on your recovery.
 
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